Curse

Ishamael Sedai · Jul 05, 2005, 09:45 AM // 09:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feli

Aeromancers take no skill. Fact. Hit two Spells in the right timing... badaboom, owned enemy. Don't try to tell me something different, i've tried myself and compared to other classes... this is just outright cheap and easy.

And about Monks, sure... let them outheal their own damage... yet they are still useless in Arena (in Tombs they are needed, sure... but in Arenas you are better off without). And no this is no joke, but waiting hours to get that monk in arenas is just noobish. Nowadays everyone with at least a bit of skill brings some kind of interrupts and if it just is knockdown. Uhh, uber monk template... uh... uber interrupted. Dead Meat again. And the Monk powerhealing himself is dropping healing on his teammates, thus leaving them weakened by the lack of Damage Output.

lol spiking takes skill. if someone or a whole team merely is hitting two buttons they are likely to run into, badaboom---> protective spirit

Feli · Jul 05, 2005, 10:17 AM // 10:17

I could use the same phrase on you.
Go and try an Aeromancer build. Protective Spirit up your ass. The monks don't know who the first target will be and by the time he has a chance to react, his teammate is dead.
So YOU are the one who clearly doesn't know what he is speaking about.
And all the counter builds against Aeromancers simply don't apply in Arenas (Random or Team) as a team which is so heavily geared against aeromancers will suck against everything else. Once again, tombs, HoH and GvG is something different. But in Arenas it is this way.

Schorny · Jul 05, 2005, 10:18 AM // 10:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnylange

Lol. From my experience I don't think it is... Just like I mentioned in my above post about the team spliting up and leaving the monk wide open for attack.

I'm a monk and I can stand against 1 opponent without problem (as long as it isn't a mesmer

). 2 are tough but with Mark of Protection I get 10 seconds to donate completely to my team.

As I'm a monk, I get targeted first. So all I have to do is stay alive - I can focus my build around that. If the air eles don't time their attacks right, which is very likely in a PuG without TS I can spam reversal of fortune. If I'm in trouble, I can disable a warrior with Pacifism, allthough this needs coordination with my team.

And believe me, a monk designed to stay alive (and not much more) can stay alive very long. As long as no mesmers are around.

Devts-Waver · Jul 05, 2005, 02:01 PM // 14:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarrenJasper

You mean people like you, who try and tell others how to enjoy their game?

Uhm, are you ok? I never said anything like that. Lol, a little touchy aren't we?

P.S. Drugs are bad.

Ishamael Sedai · Jul 05, 2005, 02:39 PM // 14:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feli

I could use the same phrase on you.
Go and try an Aeromancer build. Protective Spirit up your ass. The monks don't know who the first target will be and by the time he has a chance to react, his teammate is dead.
So YOU are the one who clearly doesn't know what he is speaking about.
And all the counter builds against Aeromancers simply don't apply in Arenas (Random or Team) as a team which is so heavily geared against aeromancers will suck against everything else. Once again, tombs, HoH and GvG is something different. But in Arenas it is this way.

In random arenas I protective spirit everyone before the first attack. I did it this very morning against teams. Sniping is even easier to stop in random arenas because there are less snipers (max of 4 although that doesn't happen very often) and a lot of times they aren't as skilled at doing what they do. Plus one of the aero spells you have 3 seconds to remove. As far as me not being geared for anything else that is blatantly untrue. I bring along condition removal and hex removal. Warriors and rangers have a tough time hitting me since at 16 protection prayers shield of deflection dodges 77% of attacks and gives me 25 armor. I can stay in this constantly if needed or give it to a teammate that is under heavy fire. With protective spirit on everyone the sniping is really neutralized in 4 on 4. I can heal the 45-55 dmg spikes with divine favor.

Doing this I have lost some before but today won about 14 games in one run today without a loss before 2 players had to go. Normally I will at least make the 10 wins to get to the team arenas. Granted NONE of this is to brag. There really isn't anything to brag about. I am a protection monk who plays my build a lot and am going into random arenas. I should win. The reason I am saying this is to attempt to refute what Feli is saying.

You must have had some very poor monks as your teammates. Having poor monk teammates shouldn't be a shock in random arenas either. A lot of times people are testing their builds and this includes monks. Sometimes you will find monks who get crazy wanting to smite with their own bodies rather than using a sturdy warrior to smite. Weird things happen in the random arena.

It is almost easier to counter sniping in the random arenas for me at least. My prot. spirit lasts 24 seconds plus an extra 4 or 5 with the 20% enchant pommel. It really isn't that hard to have it on everyone when the battle starts.

Its going to be hard to convince me that I can't counter sniping in random arenas when I just did it a few hours ago. Once again not to brag but to simply refute the above.

Thomasuwoo · Jul 05, 2005, 02:50 PM // 14:50

ROFL monks aren't that important in random areana. A group with 4 wars and res sigs is going to rip up any group with monks in it if they don't have defense against melee. I usually bring pred sason and drop it if thee are no monks in my team. or the otherr team ounubers us in monks. Think outside the box people.
And don't be a total arse and leave because your team doesn't have amonk. Wait 30 secconds and see if the team can pull it's own weight first.

Feli · Jul 05, 2005, 03:03 PM // 15:03

Protective Spam for all you want. This spell has energy costs you know? Maybe you can keep those spam up for a while, but ultimately will run low on energy.

Anyways, back to the topic. I just had 15 matches of PVP and ALL of them were lost due to leavers. It always was like that: DC in the very first seconds of the match or DC in the very first seconds of the battle when someone took damage.

Ishamael Sedai · Jul 05, 2005, 03:30 PM // 15:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feli

Protective Spam for all you want. This spell has energy costs you know? Maybe you can keep those spam up for a while, but ultimately will run low on energy.

Anyways, back to the topic. I just had 15 matches of PVP and ALL of them were lost due to leavers. It always was like that: DC in the very first seconds of the match or DC in the very first seconds of the battle when someone took damage.

It is different than spamming protective spirit. For one you don't continue keeping it up for everyone during the game, but you can afford to at the start of the fight. Yes that might mean that not everyone gets the full 29 second benefit, but if most people have it for 10 seconds that will counter that first round of sniping if there is one. If you cast it early enough your energy will mostly regen by the time the battle really heats up. Some games you use some spells more than others. After a while in the fight you can see who is the focus of the enemy attacks and what type of attacks they are using. Sometimes certain spells are more valuable than at other times. There are some games I rarely use my shield of deflection and then other games where I rarely use protective spirit after this first round. Some games where I'm getting hit with spam stoning by an earth ele (these can be nasty, 2 stones that are 25 dmg each at a 5 energy cost 1 sec cast no recharge...) shielding hands seems like one of the best spells ever, whereas other games it feels like I'm just using it because its a cheap cast.

I do feel for you though with all those quitters. I don't think I've ever had anything that bad even when I was playing with my warrior. 15 in a row is horrible. Maybe adding in a feature if you quite a certain number of times in a certain time limit you have to wait awhile to do random arenas. But even then people could just not quite and play bad.

A team can win without a monk, but you really need to rethink your whole monk usefulness in the random arenas. Would so many a-holes be quitting until they get on a team with a monk if it weren't for monks being extremely useful?

Beqxter · Jul 05, 2005, 04:38 PM // 16:38

I suspect, but don't know for certain, that the rationale behind quitting if you don't get a monk is that, supposedly, if you have a monk he/she will be taking care of your health, leaving you time to think offensively, which is more fun, rather than wasting time saving your own ass, which I suppose is less fun.

It is a simplistic and narrow view of the game, if it is in fact the case, and shows definite lack of originality and flexibility in the player. If it weren't for the fact that it kills your odds, especially if you have more than one, I'd say you're better off without that person. Even if they replaced a leaver with a hench of the same class, that would be something.

At any rate, leaving is simply rude. GW PvP is a team sport, pure and simple, regardless of venue. If you went down to the local park, joined a pickup group for some hoops, and then just walked away in the middle of the game because you weren't winning, what would everyone else on the court think of you? The answer's pretty obvious.

Unfortunately, the anonymity of internet play grants people greater license to be a**holes without direct repercussions. Doesn't change the fact that they're a**holes at heart, though, and you can take comfort/pity in the thought that their lives are probably pretty hollow and petty outside the game as well. So at least you can claim moral victory, right?

CrypticusAugustus · Jul 05, 2005, 05:05 PM // 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feli

Aeromancers take no skill. Fact. Hit two Spells in the right timing... badaboom, owned enemy. Don't try to tell me something different, i've tried myself and compared to other classes... this is just outright cheap and easy.

And about Monks, sure... let them outheal their own damage... yet they are still useless in Arena (in Tombs they are needed, sure... but in Arenas you are better off without). And no this is no joke, but waiting hours to get that monk in arenas is just noobish. Nowadays everyone with at least a bit of skill brings some kind of interrupts and if it just is knockdown. Uhh, uber monk template... uh... uber interrupted. Dead Meat again. And the Monk powerhealing himself is dropping healing on his teammates, thus leaving them weakened by the lack of Damage Output.

Maybe you should level up and get out of the Ascalon Arena. You must be one of those warriors thats mad because you got owned by an aeromancer. Don't say that a profession takes no skill, maybe you just dont have the skill to counter it.

DarrenJasper · Jul 05, 2005, 05:11 PM // 17:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Devts-Waver

Uhm, are you ok? I never said anything like that. Lol, a little touchy aren't we?

P.S. Drugs are bad.

Don't worry, I give you leave to squirm out of your original statement.

Rasp · Jul 05, 2005, 05:13 PM // 17:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarrenJasper

Maybe they show up as 'offline' because they actually crashed, and not deliberately quit?

The idea that we'd be punishing those with flaky connections aside, I should have the right to quit out of any group I please. I'm not playing this game to babysit people, and if I can see a group's not going anywhere, why should I waste any more of my time?

Agreed 100%. I won't waste my time on a team that I know will not win the match or will loose soon anyways. I'd rather find a good team, that stands a chance at winning more than 1 match.

Rasp · Jul 05, 2005, 05:16 PM // 17:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomasuwoo

ROFL monks aren't that important in random areana. A group with 4 wars and res sigs is going to rip up any group with monks in it if they don't have defense against melee. I usually bring pred sason and drop it if thee are no monks in my team. or the otherr team ounubers us in monks. Think outside the box people.
And don't be a total arse and leave because your team doesn't have amonk. Wait 30 secconds and see if the team can pull it's own weight first.

That's odd. I've yet to see a group of 4 warriors take an *organized* random team down (with a monk), unless they have a good hammer warrior.

(I rarely see hammer warriors, much less good ones.)

ElevenBravo · Jul 05, 2005, 06:24 PM // 18:24

LOL. My guild GVG'ed a guild a few days ago. Cant remeber their names but they where known "hero rushers". We got in game and they told us "We are going to ganked your hero". Luckly one of our guild mates knew the guild and told us they really would. The match starts, they take the flag, wait to get the 10% moral boost then rush our hero. Im a m/e standing next to the hero. They were mostly warriors. I ploped out a Ward against melee around the hero and then we kill them all with AOE. Then they all left. Obviously they where just faction farming.

I agree with all the OP suggestions.

And you could argue for people going link dead but even that should be counted as points taken away because if you didnt, people would start pulling out their network connections to leave a match.

ICURADik · Jul 05, 2005, 09:31 PM // 21:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElevenBravo

LOL. My guild GVG'ed a guild a few days ago. Cant remeber their names but they where known "hero rushers". We got in game and they told us "We are going to ganked your hero". Luckly one of our guild mates knew the guild and told us they really would. The match starts, they take the flag, wait to get the 10% moral boost then rush our hero. Im a m/e standing next to the hero. They were mostly warriors. I ploped out a Ward against melee around the hero and then we kill them all with AOE. Then they all left. Obviously they where just faction farming.

I agree with all the OP suggestions.

And you could argue for people going link dead but even that should be counted as points taken away because if you didnt, people would start pulling out their network connections to leave a match.

Why do you care? You go the win and faction points. Higher level matches give more faction and only matches that are ranked give faction. That Guild will pay in the long run for leaving. There are plenty of safeguards against farming. People need to stop thinking they can police everyone else.

Devts-Waver · Jul 05, 2005, 09:39 PM // 21:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarrenJasper

Don't worry, I give you leave to squirm out of your original statement.

How about we start staying on topic? I'm dropping this.

Makkert · Jul 05, 2005, 09:48 PM // 21:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazy diamond

I love it when people take random arenas this seriously.

Hell, I've quit on my team just because I didn't like the way one guy would talk to me.

I just use random to test my builds and get a feel for them, nothing more, nothing less.

thank you!
one more to the ignore list!
just because you had a problem with one, you basicly screwed all your other teammates.

/ignore mode on

Tellani Artini · Jul 05, 2005, 10:59 PM // 22:59

Penalties for anything in the random arena is silly. The random arena is not to be taken seriously. Not to say that I leave my team before we start fighting or anything. I used to make a point to stay in every match until it was over, to be polite or whatever. Then I started getting into tombs and GvG. Now I leave as soon as it turns into a marathon, or when 2 people leave on the kill count map. Random arena just isn't as big a deal to some people as it is to others.

But yeah, leaving before the match even starts is, if nothing else, rude. Should it be penalized? Nah.

Feli · Jul 06, 2005, 07:46 AM // 07:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrypticusAugustus

Maybe you should level up and get out of the Ascalon Arena. You must be one of those warriors thats mad because you got owned by an aeromancer. Don't say that a profession takes no skill, maybe you just dont have the skill to counter it.

So much hate, just because i stated some truth. Pity i'm not in Ascalon Arena at all, left that place LONG ago when losers with Droknar Armor and Elite Skills started to roam that place.
I'm using PVP Builds for PVP and have actually TRIED an aeromancer. And really... it is cheap and easy. Compare it with any other Profession out there. Warriors do have to fire up the right combo to bring a target down. Rangers are basically a good class to deal damage, but a really worse one when it comes to actually killing something in PVP. Necromancer? Another hard class - a great supporter but unless he is totally skilled about damage he won't kill anything on his own. Mesmer? One of the hardest classes to play. And i do play one in PVE. Sure i can counter that aeromancers with that mesmer. Quite easy, but that is not the point.

The point is, aeromancer is cheap and easy and takes zero skill. Do a look at the other elementalists. Fire? Has a real hard time getting their AOE Effects right. Earth? Quite nice but HEAVILY exhaustion based. Water? Nice slow downs and low costs for spells... but most of the time you are hampered by skill cooldown times which are quite annoying compared with their low damage. Aeromancer? Push button 1, Push button 2... "0wn3d!!!!111!!!" target. Don't try to tell me something different, i've tried it myself else i would not say it.
Aeromancers are not superior, but they take 0 skill. All the other Spike builds are stronger then aeromancer but ... all of them require you to push more buttons then just 2 of them in the right timing.

Makkert · Jul 06, 2005, 08:10 AM // 08:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feli

Warriors do have to fire up the right combo to bring a target down. Rangers are basically a good class to deal damage, but a really worse one when it comes to actually killing something in PVP. Necromancer? Another hard class - a great supporter but unless he is totally skilled about damage he won't kill anything on his own. Mesmer? One of the hardest classes to play. And i do play one in PVE. Sure i can counter that aeromancers with that mesmer. Quite easy, but that is not the point.

well one remark: playing a support class means support. so yeah, it might have a hard time 'killing something on its own'. what do you think support means?